What kind of journey is spiritual? These are, in my opinion, interchangeable. But I believe there is some misunderstanding about that, particularly in the self-help community. There is a lot of focus placed on controlling your anger and improving yourself. How do you respond to this? What is accurate?
John Kerry: Yeah, I always like to stress that management and engagement are two different things. The best way I’ve ever explained management is… These are my two hands; the management hand is on the left, and the engagement hand is on the right. When we were children, things were like this (management lower). We were involved, and the managerial hand was nowhere to be found. There was only this moment and nothing else.
And growing was what this was.We were involved, and the managerial hand was nowhere to be found. There was only this moment and nothing else. And this was what it was like to grow up. The hands are equal.
DONNA: So, you recently started living…
Yes, Mary. Yes. If it existed in our heads, the past and the future… It was a tool. These weren’t accurate. Truth is found in the present moment, and as we grew older, assumed management roles, and engagement decreased.
No offense intended to management. A better Bubble of Struggle is produced. We are not criticizing management in any way with this job. Our only goal is to handle management. We are merely increasing involvement. This is what starts to take place. Talk about engagement starts to increase. Does the managerial hand really disappear?
No. For navigating through reality, we require it. But, it isn’t the primary way we interact with reality. We no longer trust the process because we keep trying to manage it.
In my bathroom, there is a great saying by Sir Thomas Keating. I won’t accurately recall every phrase… The main manifestation of human will is consent, not effortUp the inward ladder of liberation you go. What a fantastic line. You start to lose interest in directing your life. I can’t recall precisely how he stated it, so these are my words. And I want to interact with it much more now.
DONNA: I agree. complying with it. Following its flow.MARY: Yes, listening to it. Engaging with it. Now, that doesn’t mean that we throw management out. It does make a much better Bubble of Struggle, but it won’t bring you freedom. Freedom comes when you can engage. Freedom is when you are curious when fear is talking inside you. Not managing it. Not trying to make yourself less anxious. That can be very important. It can be important to take medicines. It can be very important to have a very deep breathing practice. But what we want to do is add engagement. Engagement is where lasting healing happens.
DONNA: I love those words because the management part of running our lives is the doing portion. We aren’t throwing that away.
MARY: No!
